I am going to leave ...

rashy wrote:

responses below in **italics**

Mho wrote:

YAYAY ... we seem to get closer ... but I want to add some more points:

1) raiding time doesn't seem to be useful for communication a lot. as it is
challenging it keeps us all more or less busy and eats our full concentration,
hardly time to make a hittng joke, no time to raise any issues beside what's
directly of interest.

***no thats raiding I am afraid, which is why we only do it two nights a week, its casual and leaves people free to do other things at other times, I would like to point out shad recently solo'd a guild hall construction, dont you think he is entitled to reduce his play time whilst still supporting all activities that happen***


my point still stays: the raiding events and the spent time at APW is not the
time to raise issues nor discuss guild-stuff.

2) some key-personel reduced their main play-times to almost just the events
and raiding groups, so it is very hard to meet them in phases of less intensity
and stress to be able to start conversations.

*** sometimes there are RL issues that get in the way.. there play time is there own business as are there affairs, same with your own lack of play time recently****


my point still stays: the guild actually suffers less playtime of the existing members. this is no point to be adressed to anyone especially nor is it intended to offend anyone, it is just to mark a basic fact resulting in less
stressfree socializing.
and I think we should explore this and figure those reasons we maybe can take influence at.

3) the forums doesn't seem to offer the atmosphere for everyone to post
their concerns and issues. why is this ? to make it more concrete:

*** its almost completely open people chose not to post not the other way around, yours was the first post ever moderated and agree or not done for reasons I still maintain are correct***

caught you there, eh ? ... but this point wasn't directed towards you at all, just, please check the forums, if you can find any general guild-issue raised during the last 2 months.

a) Nandy recently left the guild: why no signal on the forums in time ?

** it was for personal reasons (you can ask her) but personally I did not want to make my private friendships public debate, also as kedon says sometimes leaving an issue is better than a full on discussion. which by the way I still maintain is the case with moony since it relates to her personal feelings (regardles if right or wrong) and sometimes dear mho its easier to take a break and just come back with noone flooding you with tells otr having your business airwed in public. Had the isssue with me and nandy been made public in this fashion I would not be posting here now for sure and I am not so convinced Nandy would of returned so quick but thats my opinion, Also I would like to point out Nandyhad still left her main in the guild and it was hoped by those that knew about it, myself, kedon, shad and moony, that she would come around and rejoin. Moony I think had still left in Ceris and I am hoping that may indicate all is not lost.**

I didn't ask for a full explanation of Nandy's reasons to leave the guild. But I
am wondering why there is not even a little hint, that something quite
moving is about, moving enough to make her quitting the guild.
And I am not wondering to find any arguements or to make someone feel
guilty, but I am wondering to figure chances to be changed, so that maybe next time it is possible to avoid. As well I don't wanna press anyone to make
public what belongs to her/his privacy.
See it like I am dated with a friend to go to the movie theaters. Short befor
the date he gets upset, he'll call me and tell me that he is not coming. If he
doesn't I have the right to start worrying, don't I ? I must assume that some-
thing between him and me might not be okay.

b) Moonlake took down the webby without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?

**Once again for somone that professes to be in touch with peoples feelings as a counselor you seem to miss the point that maybe she was upset, but since everytime you or anyone else has an issue they advise in GC OOOh go to VG crafters for example even though we have some of the information in our own site, very fwe people (you can see from ISP logs) did actually ever look at it and they were always directing people away from a site moony put a lot of effort into completely selflessly... now put 2+2 together think of how moony feels and I hope your able to get 4. **

see above

c) Moonlake took out her art-stuff without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?

** well I think you hit the nail on the head HER ART, so I guess thats her choice, but once again your missing a point about how moony is feeling about things right now**

see above

d) Cass's raid healer issue: why no signal on the forums in time ?

**LOL it was found out at 1am, saturday night.. I heard from cass what was wrong, and for the record I skype chat moony that she was upset a little about healing as we had been concerned all night as she had been leaving the guild for an unknown reason. I personally was relieved it was an issue I loked upon as minor, I was VERY specific talking to cass that it was NOT a person that had upset her just the healing thing and she concurred. It was at this point she said keep it quiet and it was too late. I then chatted to moony and shad on skype saying cass felt left out about the healing etc etc. I thought it was going to be dead easy to sort out (ie rotate some healing like we do the tanks) and was relieved that the reason behind cass leaving was relatively easy to sort out and then could be further looked at in a guild context.

Moony reacted to what I had said which I was surprised at if I am hoonest, and my relief about cass turned to concern for moony and absolute dread at the strength of her feeling. At this point she cut me off and I talked to shad for 5 minutes, stressing what casss had said that it was IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO MOONY PERSONALLY, he obviously had to tend to his upset wife. Mooony also left the guild with the majority of toons (I founud this out the next day) cass then reacted and left, xi then left Cynn then reacted and left, nexxus said he would leave and then changed his mind.

Lots of people overreacting with NO attempt to think about ANYBODY ELSES FEELINGS, ONLY THEIR OWN. In some cases I fully understand this and with others I think frankly your being drama queens... In no way will I EVER believe that the need for a forum post outstrips someones immeadiate feelings, I will fight tootha nd nail to protect them, try and find out what is going on and then report facts, not have a public bannana enquiry.

Remember this is about cass and moony noone else, cass has rejoined and I hope is starting to feel better (I have yet to talk to her deeply and if permitted i will in private) Moony I hope is starting to see things calmer, we MUSt give her time and not push her away ***

see above

4) my rl-experience tells me it does not serve in conflicts when you try to
keep issues untold and discrete. issues and disturbances must come out of
the sack or the sack dies the overfill-explosion, which actually happens in a
row.

**Sometimes Ralf you have to let people just chill out, and come to terms with how they feel, right now think how mooony feels very very upset and in a bad place, then add on top feelings with everything she reads. I absolutely love and adore her as I think many do, but imho she is a little fragile right now and I dont think all this discussion is helping her as it only places a degree of (quite needless) guilt on her feelings on top of everything else, this I believe will reduce her reasoning to come back sooner than later.

sure they may chill out, but still, a short note would be okay

But when people fall out about looting for example it is easier to sort out and public is often a great way to benefit the guild with say looting rules. This with moony/Cass and My friendship with Nandy are two seperate instances and not generally occaisions where public recrimination and discussion actually helps.**

sure we have to seperate public and private affairs and I am aware of the fact, that not every issue can be dealt in public. the art will be to extract the public stuff and bring it forward.

5) Censoring the forums does not prepare more faith.

** never before have we had any censorship my reasons for removing your post (it was done suddenly as moony came on as admin) was purely because I thought it might upset an already upset person, I explained all this to you in pms and then in game immeadiately, despite the fact I was not actually free at the time because I thought it was important. (Also shad pm'd me at 5.30 I immeadiately made a small talk in GC but you had already acted not actually giving anyone a chance to talk to you.
Frankly I think your I am leaving BS because your kept out of a loop when in fact you have not been I find deplorable and insensitive to moony and cass (as nooones really had a chance to talk with you) (I had not seen you and neither had shad, you made no attempt to pm to check what was going on you plowed on regardless of how anyone may feel) .**


sorry, that's my way ... I am willing to help IF I am asked, otherwise I keep distance. but nevertheless I try to figure and deal the results to the community

6) maybe this all discussion should have a guild-internal niche so it provides a
certain privacy amongst MNR.

**This forum is private and I thought you were argueing for more openess. I dont belive officer forums for example etc are valuable at all everyone can see all here its just meant to be a fun relaxed community site.**

Rashy, why your interpretations are so wrong today ? ... especially this thread has been opened to the public and IS accessible by everyone, not only members of MNR ?

.

all in all I am wondering about your todays talent to misunderstand

If you log out the thread is not visible at all... only 3 sections are set as public viewing.

As I say I will happily talk through pms or in game tells but right now as I believe this thread is doing way more harm than good I am not going to make it worse than it alreay is.

rashy wrote:

**at least I am showing some god damn consideration for peoples thoughts and feelings around here you clearly are not... last bnight you even whined that upset people should come back on as you could not get a group... remove your head from your backside please.**

Jeez, you are so selfabsorbed that I just feel pity for you.
In every post you have made, you have made sure that we can read about how good you are, and what you have done ...
And exacly where in the "I am showing some god damn consideration for peoples thoughts and feelings around here" part was it you didn't understand? eh?
Your post to Cyn lacked every part of that ...

Guess what?
I will not respond to private messages or ingame tells, if you have anything to say, feel free to do it here for everyone to see...
I have nothing to hide... do you?

rashy wrote:

If you log out the thread is not visible at all... only 3 sections are set as public viewing.

As I say I will happily talk through pms or in game tells but right now as I believe this thread is doing way more harm than good I am not going to make it worse than it alreay is.

1 point for you ... you are right ...

just I referred to this thread, where I was told that general was open for everyone and the right place to leave links to the great subwebbies Moonlake made

in that case nexx, we will agree to disagree...
If you dont want to talk to me ingame etc then thats your choice, I am not going to contribute further to this thread becoming our personal bickering place. So maybe we should just leave it alone and and as I said agree to disagree.


edit - Nexxus, if you do want to have this convo done in public I am happy to sort it out in GC... I am just not going to do it here for the reasons intimated in the above threads.

I really don't understand why this has turned to personal insults and arguments.

I did eventually post to explain what had happened and hoped that everyone could calm down and let things get back to normal but after reading this I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

What's with everyone quitting all of a sudden? I really fail to see how that helps the situation that unfortunately kicked off on saturday night. I genuinely thought we were a group of friends playing together, all of a sudden it just doesn't feel like that anymore. Problem is, if you have two friends and they fall out, as is happening here, you suddenly find yourself caught between the two, awkwardness, bad atmosphere etc follows. If that happens, then whats the point in even playing as a group?

If people want to know how moonie is or what happened, then pm or mail her, she's fine and just taking some time out. But really, a public pissing contest on the forum isn't going to do the guild as a whole any favors. I genuinely value what we have become together guys, and you know from my days in TSS that i'm usually the first to join in a forum fight, but I honestly have too much respect for my guildies and what we have achieved to risk spoiling it for the sake of proving someone wrong.

C,mon guys, it's not like we are total strangers on a public forum trying to prove who's cock is the biggest (mine obviously), we help each other, play together, joke together etc. Start disliking one another and it's a fast downhill ride.

There's no need for any of this bitterness, regardless of who did what and why, can't everyone let bygones be bygones, take some chill out time and just think about why we all joined MNR in the first place and if we value it enough to be a little more tolerant towards one another. If we don't, and if we can't get along with the people who are supposed to be our ingame friends, then how is it ever going to get better?

It's up to you all really, if you have enjoyed the past 6 months in MNR and want to carry on progressing together, then let's do that. If it's no big deal to you, then carry on the way you are until there is nothing left to be a part of. I honestly thought we had left all this stuff behind us.

Tbh well said shad.


Taking a deep breath and trying to detach myself I can see I was utterly out of order deleting cynns original post. regardless of any motives I may of had whether well intended or not.

I unreservedly apologise to everyone for this and it will be something I think about in my future conduct.
It was never my intention to provoke all this and as my hackles rose to Nex I know for my part I did not contribute to making it any better quite the opposite.

So to Cynn, nexxuss and anyone else I apologise completely and I hope sincerely.

To moony I hope you dont read this and recoil, I think despite its wayward path it actually shows the strength of feeling that all this has bought out and how much you are actually missed, respected and loved.


I have made things a whole lot worse than they were, it has escalated beyond anything reasonable, and I am hoping that it can know calm down and we can think about the problems that have been revealed with regards to the guild.

Once again I am genuinely sorry to Cynamoon, nexxus and all herein.

thanks.

To Shad: Sorry if I blew this up more than neccesary, but I can't just sit and watch and say nothing, hope you can understand that. So from here on I won't say anything that might upset anyone. Or at least I will try not too.

To Rashy: I accept you appology, although none is neccesary for my part, I can take this ... I'm just like you concerned about others, even though we may have different opinion on that.
And as to not speak to you, I will speak to you, although not about this case.
I will not grudge you ingame and I will be willing to try to act as an adult and let this go.

(and if it make everybody feel any better, for my part it's ok to delete this whole thread, as long as all concerned says it's ok, as I think it perhaps better to put this behind us.)

Come on thats no way to say sorry. We need to extend your hand out from your side - not too fast because that looks like you're drawing a weapon, which could have a negative effect on the act of friendliness. Now present your hand in a flat, side-on gesture - never in a flat, face-on gesture, because that looks like a Nazi salute, which could also have a negative effect on the act of friendliness. Finally, clutch the other person's hand gently, shake for three seconds, then release - now return your hand immediately to your side; don't wipe it with a Wet-One, don't sniff it lewdly and go heh-heh-heh. Then grab your newfound friend by the shoulders - or by the elbows if he's reluctant and you need to restrain him like a shearer pinning down a sheep. Then go in for a kiss on one cheek, swing your head over to the other cheek for a second kiss, now return again to the first cheek for one final lingering kiss, THAT'S THREE KISSES IN ALL, GENTLEMEN, and try not to wince when his tough stubble grates off your chin like a Veg-O-Matic slicer-dicer. You should also remove hats before kissing each other, because the brims could collide, causing tremendous social embarrassment. Also I know it's hard to be smiley in this modern, fastpaced, high-stressed lifestyle, but we've got to start lifting our lip-corners IMMEDIATELY and show the world how insanely happy we are - use a bobby pin and pliers if you have to. Remember, it takes 33 muscles to frown, but only 13 muscles to smile - 14 if you're a man, because we usually only smile when we're having sex. Finally the "G'day mate" thing is so passe now: everyone's doing it - the Germans have got their "G'utmorgan maten-fluber" and the Canadians are doing "G'hi there, moosehumper, eh". So let's go back to the basics and just deliver a polite, formal "Hello, oh dear friend" - and there we have it a french canadian sorry.

Waddles over placing spectacles firmly on bridge of nose, idly sharpening knitting kneedles and reaching for her rocking chair.

Plumps herself down and reads over the posts...muses at the wise things she could add with all her DECADES of experience....falls asleep...starts to snore and jerks awake..ooh yeaaaa

ANY GLASWEGIAN KISSES THAT ARE NEEDED WILL BE GIVEN BY MOI,,,,(g'here noo ya proddie, hun bast'rd ye! im gonna gee ya the f####in kiss! )

Rocks back and peruses sage advice once again, searches under table for any bribes finds none and remembers where she hid the last caramel, wanders off again

I would also like to appologise here, It would not hurt if I did not love you all to bits....... *shakes hands in a non natzi type of shake, but a bit more limp than a manly hand as mine are the size of a 10 year olds :P but so so sorry and I am going to come back, just need a small break.

*cheers and smothers moony in cuddles*

thanks for coming in here and saying that, I know its not been the easiest thing for you of late. Take Care and you know were we all are

YAY!!! Realy glad to hear that Moony. And happy everything seems to be ok again. Was realy worried!
So now i just need the new parts and i'll be back in business

Hope to see you all soon!

Admin wrote:

I would also like to appologise here, It would not hurt if I did not love you all to bits....... *shakes hands in a non natzi type of shake, but a bit more limp than a manly hand as mine are the size of a 10 year olds :P but so so sorry and I am going to come back, just need a small break.

good news that ... take your time ... sounds sooner or later someone's on to reinvite Cynona then ... ;-) ...

kedon and Nandy both jabve invite privelleges for a couple of weeks, as I am not about this weekend thought it might be prudent.