I am going to leave ...

I am going to leave ...

as I don't understand any more how things are dealt ...
the "keep-it-discrete"-strategy never convinced me ...
I feel ignored, posts get deleted, something happens
behind a curtain I can't look behind ... well ... I am out.

As I said to you ingame and in a pm the post was removed out of respect for peoples feelings... Discuss what the hell you want to but bear in mind some people are currently very upset...

More than that we have talked about ingame and I am not going to relive it all in public, its not fair on you or me.

rashy wrote:

As I said to you ingame and in a pm the post was removed out of respect for peoples feelings... .

And you are the self-appointed judge of whats gets removed and whats stay?
C'mon Rash ... we are grown up , I don't buy that crap.

Edited.

nexxus said : And you are the self-appointed judge of whats gets removed and whats stay?
C'mon Rash ... we are grown up , I don't buy that crap.


I have tried to talk to you ingame but you are nor responding.
well you are going to do what your doing to do nexx.... you were there online when i told everyone in guild what little i know about things and asked for people to respect those that are upset... I guess that was too much to ask. As for me being a self appointed judge .. no I am not... I am someone taking a lot of flak atm who is in the dark as much as anyone. Above ANYTHING ELSE I care about how people are feeling, and if they need time I am gonna do everything in my pwer to see they get it regardless of whther you want to know or not.

Your more than welcome to stay as if everyone. I hope you reconsider.

I was afk .. thats why I din't anwer you in chat, and yes I saw what you said, but that does not make it alright to remove someones post in the forum, ever ...
and please don't play the guilt thing on me, it won't work, of course we want to respect those who are upset, but you can't do that by upsetting even more people.
If someone like Cyn doesn't even know whats going on, you can't just delete his post and then try to explain, that is lack of respect.

If you think a post is inapropriate, you talk to the person who wrote it, and ask him to remove it. You don't just delete a post and then explain.
Bad idea, very bad idea...

I'm asking you nicely, think twice before you do something like this in the future. You can't justify doing something to protect someones feeling at the cost of someone elses feelings.

I will stay for now... as I have been asked to stay by some, and becouse I believe the guild hopefully has a future.
And I will try not to be a drama queen, so I will edit my last post.

Thank you. Likewise I will think carefully about my actions and what I say.

Well, what happened ...

I don't know really, and that's what it is about ...

At login in the early morning Javea informed me that Cass and Moonlake saturday
left the guild, just he wasn't able to tell me, what happened and why exactly they left,
as he reported 3rd party infos as he wasn't online that day as well.

I posted on the forums asking if this information was right and if anyone could give
me an update about what happened. Rashy deleted this post and told me, he did so
because anyone might feel upset.

Okay, there we go ... the ruling politics seem to keep me quiet and not getting invol-
ved. this is not what I am after and nothing that brings me forward, nor to a growing
gamer experience, neither to deeper bindings to you all people.

Ingame Malteaser, Nandy and later Kedon gave me an overview on their view on those
things that happened on saturday.

What I am missing though are o-tone statements of those people involved, in their own
words and on an appropriate level to be maybe discussable for all, and if that's not pos-
sible a shorty saying „I take a thinking break, will be back soon“.

Personally I need a thinking-, discussing- and experimenting-break about how to behave
in a guild at a stage when people start learning better each other, getting confronted with
everyone's weeknesses and darker sides and how to keep doors open for a public com-
munication about issues rising with this.

Personally I am hoping that a calm period will follow with people returning (its already started). If they do and nothing is said thats fine. Shad has already contacted me at 5.26pm this evening to say he is taking a break and to let people know (I did in GC immeadiately but you had gone already I am afraid Cynn).

I think that its more important that people can return after issues have happened than everyone in the guild knowing the details of what occurred as they may not want aspects of their lives the premise of guild discussion.

Your post is the first (and hopefully last) I have deleted, I did it rashly (in haste) but with the right intentions, it was not done for any reason to you, it was done out of pure protection for those involved as I think at times public discussions about emotive events rarely help. Maybe as nexx said I am wrong in this but I tried to act in the best way for all followed by contacting you to talk.

I am very sorry that you have left, as you know, and my parting ingame convo about returning AND staying in touch still stand, and sincerely I hope you do.

I think your last paragraph is certanly something that needs to be considered (at the very least by myself) as we are a close knit guild this does mean that not only do we share successes but we also share the down times very closely.


On the guild generally, maybe the approach we have tried to adopt about not having a leader and wanting everyone to be able to be involved in any aspect of things is down to their own participation is not the right one.. and I think it is something we should consider and discuss in the future.

But right now as I tried to say in GC, I hope we can look forward, not back, keep the guild running smoothly and hope the people we are missing (if from taking a break or more) return soon, as everyone including yourself Cynn are deeply respected and loved.

I hope this clears it up a little and does not inflame as it is not my intent.

Ok guys, please don't blame rash for anything, he's been kind of mixed up in the middle of this without ever asking to be.

Here's what happened from our side.....well, my view anyway.

*lights a cigarette*

A short while ago, Nandy fell out with rashy, deleted some toons and declared she was quitting. Moonie spent quite a bit of time talking to both nan and rash who were both understandably upset. This week nandy came back, things are still a bit tense from what I understand between her and Rash, but at least she's back so things have improved greatly, it seemed the storm was over.

Saturday raid night, everyone turned up except Cass and we were all under the impression she was poorly. As the night progressed, she began deleting toons and told us all she was not in fact poorly. Moonie talked to her or pavey during this time as she was concerned.
Someone then told moonie that Cass was pissed off at something regarding the healing in APW.

As Moonie tries to organise the healing somewhat, I can only presume that she took this to heart, by her reaction. I should mention that I tend to ask her to sort the healing out, it's not something she actually put herself forward for. But we want to progress, in fact we have done so very well, so it was something that needed doing. She doesn't consider herself lead healer, she's just been muddling through, on the spot in situations that don't give time to think for long. I think she has always assumed that Cass sticks on pavey, the same way she sticks on me, as they have progressed through the game together as we have.

She isn't bossy by nature, quite the opposite, so having me telling her to sort the healers has kind of left her doing something she isn't all that comfortable with. But then no one else has ever stood up to do it so she has stuck with it. No favourites, no real plan, just a case of a and b keep mt alive, c and d keep ot alive and everyone else group heal kind of thing.

I think she feels hurt that people start dropping out of or missing our raids and deleting toons, without a second thought for everyone else or the harmony of the guild itself. We are all supposed to be friends and friends talk to one another if something is wrong. If we did then stuff like this wouldn't be happening now.

Now, if one of us doesnt show up for a raid and starts deleting toons during the raid, it's obviously going to be noticed. Moonie did notice and did some fishing around and was told it was to do with the healing in APW and feeling left out. As she has been pretty much forced into the situation of organising the healing of a fashion, she understandably felt this was aimed at her, rightly or wrongly.

She was very emotional after Saturdays raid so understandably we didn't hang around to explain to people and we took Sunday to chill out a bit. We didn't want to create loads more drama by making sweeping quit posts on here.

Please don't blame Rash, he has just been trying to keep the peace and make it all as low key as possible. If anyones to blame, it's me, I have been in a position to explain but didn't. I just hoped that things would calm down a bit and I was sure of what moonie wanted before I said anything.

As far as I know now, Moonie quit but was very upset at the time. I can't really say more as I honestly don't know myself, she has her own mind to make up.

Please tell me this whole thing i'm reading now is only a helloween-joke!!
Splitting up? Leaving? Deleating?
WHAT HAS HAPPENED??
I was realy happy after the TSS happenings that everything seemed to go
smoothly again and we all were having fun. I'm sorry that i wasn't there too much in the last weeks as RL kept me from playing time and time again. And
now this. I just can't believe it..

*looks shocked and out of words*

hmmm well what can i say to that with the exception of yes i did mention that i wasnt happy with the healing, after Fridays raid i felt i was being excluded and being pushed to one side, my emotions have been on an all time high this week end with some nasty RL issues which have greatly upset me, which i have explained to Moony in an email.

Late Saturday night/Sunday morning Rashy sent me a tell asking if things were ok so i explained that Moony suggested in the forum that healers and tanks be on a rota, which i was more than happy with but it didnt happen, i had no idea Moony was organising the healing if I did i would have spoken to her personally as i am sure none of thi would have happened if i had.

At the end of mine and Rashys conversation I asked Rashy not to mention what we had said, I hoped things would sort themselves out quietly.

About an hour later around 2am Moony left I was very shocked and upset and thought I could not have her leave because of me, so i quit myself in the hope that she would come back, but she didnt.

In an email Moony told me that, quote, "you are not the only person with an issue about me healing and doing things " and now i find out that it was my fault, hmmm well i dont know what else to say

No it's not all your fault Cass, Moonie had a lot of stress when Nan and Rash fell out, they are both her friends and she was the guy in the middle. It's such a difficult position to be in when both friends are telling you stuff and you don't want to betray confidences or appear to take sides, as I'm sure you understand.

I guess things just built up until she went pop, so to speak. We have worked so hard after the TSS split, to make MNR as accommodating as possible for everyone involved. We want guys to get involved as much as they want to and do stuff, but it's just not possible to chase everyone around to find out what they want. There has to be a point where the ones who want to get more involved, push themselves forward rather than get frustrated whilst waiting to be asked.

We all need all the help we can get doing stuff for and organising the guild, but we don't want anyone feeling obliged to do stuff, so we don't ask . But if people don't tell us they would like to do something or are frustrated by something, then the rest of us can't do anything to put it right.

Thank you for that Shad, you have no idea how bad i have been feeling....

but on you last point, I am always willing to help in any area and have offered my help, eg harvesting, making furniture for GH i am happy to help all the time i like to put back what i take out, what i mean is you have all helped in getting me and Pavey to lvl 50 and i like to show my appreciation in offering help, i cannot force myself upon people, my offer of help needs to be accepted. i hope you understand this, so you have to ask or i feel my help is not needed or wanted

I think we can only conclude that the problem is, we are all too fekking polite lol.

To summon up stuff ... this is a classic situation of misunderstanding, noncommunication and raiding...
the first 2 happens daily in life, and the only thing to rectify this is more communication, and to be clear of what you say. Communication is the keyword in a guild like this, just as in RL...

third thing: raiding, well what can I say more than the whole raiding thing is stressful on people even if we try to make it causual... these things wouldn't have happend if we where just doing normal quest groups.
In my opinion part of the tss thing was brought to the edge by the raiding as well ... so maybe Raiding is to blame to some degree?
I don't know, but clearly we never really experienced these kind of reactions with people before we started raiding?

And I know people are plenty upset by different reasons, but to solve any problem, big or small people need to talk - communicate ...
leaving guild, well thats one solution, until you join or create the next guild, and fall into this again after some time becouse of lack of communication.
I'm not blaming anyone for what has happend, and if someone needs a break - thats fine ... but we need to look at the reasons that brought this on the guild, or it will sure happend again.

So the word for this week is: Communication

Shad wrote:

There has to be a point where the ones who want to get more involved, push themselves forward rather than get frustrated whilst waiting to be asked.

We all need all the help we can get doing stuff for and organising the guild, but we don't want anyone feeling obliged to do stuff, so we don't ask .

Just a sidenote on this Shad ... I don't really speak for myself as I normally have no problem ask for what I want/need etc...
But my reallife experice tells me not all people have the ability to just step forward and take part in stuff etc. Some people need a push I think, so asking could in some cases be a good thing really.
Now I don't say that you or moonie should be the one doing that, just that maybe someone does
I'm sure we have some more or less shy people in guild who maybe would preciate if someone asked them to join in on something.

Nexxus wrote:

Shad wrote:

There has to be a point where the ones who want to get more involved, push themselves forward rather than get frustrated whilst waiting to be asked.

We all need all the help we can get doing stuff for and organising the guild, but we don't want anyone feeling obliged to do stuff, so we don't ask .

Just a sidenote on this Shad ... I don't really speak for myself as I normally have no problem ask for what I want/need etc...
But my reallife experice tells me not all people have the ability to just step forward and take part in stuff etc. Some people need a push I think, so asking could in some cases be a good thing really.
Now I don't say that you or moonie should be the one doing that, just that maybe someone does
I'm sure we have some more or less shy people in guild who maybe would preciate if someone asked them to join in on something.

Yea I totally agree, its Catch 22, some are too shy to ask and some are too shy to push themselves forward.

It's also about how well you know and are at ease with each other. I guess that just takes time and patience.

Completely agree communication is the issue here we need an open communication to ensure things like this don't happen again. It's not always easy to discuss matters when we're all out questing and certainly almost impossible in the middle of a raid group.

So guess it's either down to using postings like this or some form of guild meets with open discussion to air views and opinions a round table meet inbetween questing for the grail sort of thing but not too formal.

Would like to add that I was really upset when Moonie & Cass left, really glad Cass is back would really make my day if Moonie would come back too.

I agree with Pav ... we need some meeting, maybe not as formal as the tss ones but

by the way this sux, 2-3 ppl online, and for the first tim in 1.5 years I have been forced to search for outside help to finish a quest :(

Would be very nice if all upset people could please get back
Thelon is a lonley world without company...

YAYAY ... we seem to get closer ... but I want to add some more points:

1) raiding time doesn't seem to be useful for communication a lot. as it is
challenging it keeps us all more or less busy and eats our full concentration,
hardly time to make a hittng joke, no time to raise any issues beside what's
directly of interest.

2) some key-personel reduced their main play-times to almost just the events
and raiding groups, so it is very hard to meet them in phases of less intensity
and stress to be able to start conversations.

3) the forums doesn't seem to offer the atmosphere for everyone to post
their concerns and issues. why is this ? to make it more concrete:

a) Nandy recently left the guild: why no signal on the forums in time ?
b) Moonlake took down the webby without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?
c) Moonlake took out her art-stuff without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?
d) Cass's raid healer issue: why no signal on the forums in time ?

4) my rl-experience tells me it does not serve in conflicts when you try to
keep issues untold and discrete. issues and disturbances must come out of
the sack or the sack dies the overfill-explosion, which actually happens in a
row.

5) Censoring the forums does not prepare more faith.

6) maybe this all discussion should have a guild-internal niche so it provides a
certain privacy amongst MNR.

to Casstalia:
thx a lot for telling us your problems in your own words. I am really glad you
finally opened your heart. it's a first since ages.

Though I'd certainly be the first to agree that people need to voice whatever issues they have, things tend to fester if left unsaid sometimes, I can't say I believe making it a topic for discussion on an internet forum is always the best route to choose.

No not because of presenting a bad image or anything absurd like that but because having such things public can be kind of stressful and occassionally just feel inappropriate having it right out there anyone to see. Not that things should just be tucked away discreetly like I said, but sometimes talking about it with the people involved ingame or via chat or messages etc might be preferrable and be far less stressful for those involved. Not always of course, just more personal stuff sometimes.

Well anyway thats just my own view.

Kedon wrote:

Though I'd certainly be the first to agree that people need
to voice whatever issues they have, things tend to fester if left unsaid
sometimes, I can't say I believe making it a topic for discussion on an internet
forum is always the best route to choose.

No not because of presenting a bad image or anything absurd like that but
because having such things public can be kind of stressful and occassionally
just feel inappropriate having it right out there anyone to see. Not that things
should just be tucked away discreetly like I said, but sometimes talking about
it with the people involved ingame or via chat or messages etc might be
preferrable and be far less stressful for those involved. Not always of course,
just more personal stuff sometimes.

Well anyway thats just my own view.

sure thing, Kedon, guess I get what you mean, prolly a matter of balancing
out what to publish and what not.
just actually we have a situation where people leave without any announce-
ment nor public discussion. those not involved in the running conflicts don't
get a clue what's happening at all or get 3rd-party rumors telling hardly half
the truth. as a result follows a certain inpredictability of what might happen
next week. at the same time the online availability of those involved sinks.

responses below in **italics**

Mho wrote:

YAYAY ... we seem to get closer ... but I want to add some more points:

1) raiding time doesn't seem to be useful for communication a lot. as it is
challenging it keeps us all more or less busy and eats our full concentration,
hardly time to make a hittng joke, no time to raise any issues beside what's
directly of interest.

***no thats raiding I am afraid, which is why we only do it two nights a week, its casual and leaves people free to do other things at other times, I would like to point out shad recently solo'd a guild hall construction, dont you think he is entitled to reduce his play time whilst still supporting all activities that happen***

2) some key-personel reduced their main play-times to almost just the events
and raiding groups, so it is very hard to meet them in phases of less intensity
and stress to be able to start conversations.

*** sometimes there are RL issues that get in the way.. there play time is there own business as are there affairs, same with your own lack of play time recently****

3) the forums doesn't seem to offer the atmosphere for everyone to post
their concerns and issues. why is this ? to make it more concrete:

*** its almost completely open people chose not to post not the other way around, yours was the first post ever moderated and agree or not done for reasons I still maintain are correct***

a) Nandy recently left the guild: why no signal on the forums in time ?

** it was for personal reasons (you can ask her) but personally I did not want to make my private friendships public debate, also as kedon says sometimes leaving an issue is better than a full on discussion. which by the way I still maintain is the case with moony since it relates to her personal feelings (regardles if right or wrong) and sometimes dear mho its easier to take a break and just come back with noone flooding you with tells otr having your business airwed in public. Had the isssue with me and nandy been made public in this fashion I would not be posting here now for sure and I am not so convinced Nandy would of returned so quick but thats my opinion, Also I would like to point out Nandyhad still left her main in the guild and it was hoped by those that knew about it, myself, kedon, shad and moony, that she would come around and rejoin. Moony I think had still left in Ceris and I am hoping that may indicate all is not lost.**

b) Moonlake took down the webby without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?

**Once again for somone that professes to be in touch with peoples feelings as a counselor you seem to miss the point that maybe she was upset, but since everytime you or anyone else has an issue they advise in GC OOOh go to VG crafters for example even though we have some of the information in our own site, very fwe people (you can see from ISP logs) did actually ever look at it and they were always directing people away from a site moony put a lot of effort into completely selflessly... now put 2+2 together think of how moony feels and I hope your able to get 4. **

c) Moonlake took out her art-stuff without any announcement: why no signal on the forums in time ?

** well I think you hit the nail on the head HER ART, so I guess thats her choice, but once again your missing a point about how moony is feeling about things right now**

d) Cass's raid healer issue: why no signal on the forums in time ?

**LOL it was found out at 1am, saturday night.. I heard from cass what was wrong, and for the record I skype chat moony that she was upset a little about healing as we had been concerned all night as she had been leaving the guild for an unknown reason. I personally was relieved it was an issue I loked upon as minor, I was VERY specific talking to cass that it was NOT a person that had upset her just the healing thing and she concurred. It was at this point she said keep it quiet and it was too late. I then chatted to moony and shad on skype saying cass felt left out about the healing etc etc. I thought it was going to be dead easy to sort out (ie rotate some healing like we do the tanks) and was relieved that the reason behind cass leaving was relatively easy to sort out and then could be further looked at in a guild context.

Moony reacted to what I had said which I was surprised at if I am hoonest, and my relief about cass turned to concern for moony and absolute dread at the strength of her feeling. At this point she cut me off and I talked to shad for 5 minutes, stressing what casss had said that it was IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO MOONY PERSONALLY, he obviously had to tend to his upset wife. Mooony also left the guild with the majority of toons (I founud this out the next day) cass then reacted and left, xi then left Cynn then reacted and left, nexxus said he would leave and then changed his mind.

Lots of people overreacting with NO attempt to think about ANYBODY ELSES FEELINGS, ONLY THEIR OWN. In some cases I fully understand this and with others I think frankly your being drama queens... In no way will I EVER believe that the need for a forum post outstrips someones immeadiate feelings, I will fight tootha nd nail to protect them, try and find out what is going on and then report facts, not have a public bannana enquiry.

Remember this is about cass and moony noone else, cass has rejoined and I hope is starting to feel better (I have yet to talk to her deeply and if permitted i will in private) Moony I hope is starting to see things calmer, we MUSt give her time and not push her away ***

4) my rl-experience tells me it does not serve in conflicts when you try to
keep issues untold and discrete. issues and disturbances must come out of
the sack or the sack dies the overfill-explosion, which actually happens in a
row.

**Sometimes Ralf you have to let people just chill out, and come to terms with how they feel, right now think how mooony feels very very upset and in a bad place, then add on top feelings with everything she reads. I absolutely love and adore her as I think many do, but imho she is a little fragile right now and I dont think all this discussion is helping her as it only places a degree of (quite needless) guilt on her feelings on top of everything else, this I believe will reduce her reasoning to come back sooner than later.

But when people fall out about looting for example it is easier to sort out and public is often a great way to benefit the guild with say looting rules. This with moony/Cass and My friendship with Nandy are two seperate instances and not generally occaisions where public recrimination and discussion actually helps.**

5) Censoring the forums does not prepare more faith.

** never before have we had any censorship my reasons for removing your post (it was done suddenly as moony came on as admin) was purely because I thought it might upset an already upset person, I explained all this to you in pms and then in game immeadiately, despite the fact I was not actually free at the time because I thought it was important. (Also shad pm'd me at 5.30 I immeadiately made a small talk in GC but you had already acted not actually giving anyone a chance to talk to you.
Frankly I think your I am leaving BS because your kept out of a loop when in fact you have not been I find deplorable and insensitive to moony and cass (as nooones really had a chance to talk with you) (I had not seen you and neither had shad, you made no attempt to pm to check what was going on you plowed on regardless of how anyone may feel) .**

6) maybe this all discussion should have a guild-internal niche so it provides a
certain privacy amongst MNR.

**This forum is private and I thought you were argueing for more openess. I dont belive officer forums for example etc are valuable at all everyone can see all here its just meant to be a fun relaxed community site.**

.

Rashy quit this I-have-been-acting-with-the-best-intentions-for-moonie crap...
If you can't post a reply to cyn withouit trying diminish him, you should just shut the f*ck up.

rashy wrote:

I would like to point out shad recently solo'd a guild hall construction, dont you think he is entitled to reduce his play time whilst still supporting all activities that happen***

Are you the spokesman for Shad now?


*** sometimes there are RL issues that get in the way.. there play time is there own business as are there affairs, same with your own lack of play time recently****

Really no need to defend this one by attacking Cyns playtime is it?
All he was saying was that it was hard to get hold on some "key" persons, and since Cyn is maybe no longer considered a keyperson there is no need to comment on his lack of playtime I think.
You think it's ok to defend this by trying to miscredit Cyn for his playtime? Jeez.


*** its almost completely open people chose not to post not the other way around, yours was the first post ever moderated and agree or not done for reasons I still maintain are correct***

** it was for personal reasons (you can ask her) but personally I did not want to make my private friendships public debate, also as kedon says sometimes leaving an issue is better than a full on discussion. which by the way I still maintain is the case with moony since it relates to her personal feelings (regardles if right or wrong) and sometimes dear mho its easier to take a break and just come back with noone flooding you with tells otr having your business airwed in public. Had the isssue with me and nandy been made public in this fashion I would not be posting here now for sure and I am not so convinced Nandy would of returned so quick but thats my opinion, Also I would like to point out Nandyhad still left her main in the guild and it was hoped by those that knew about it, myself, kedon, shad and moony, that she would come around and rejoin. Moony I think had still left in Ceris and I am hoping that may indicate all is not lost.**

Are you seriously think anyone can leave guild under dramatic forms and then come back without anyone noticing?
Let me just remind you that your action in this whole affair has made this whole situation worse than it maybe had to be, so don't pretend your an guardian Angel for all the upset persons. By meddling in this you have seen to that this took even bigger proportions Rashy.
And keep posting these little postings, you continue to make things worse, trust me!

And I have said before, moderating (censoring) someones post like this is in NO way correct rashy. What do you take us for? We are not kids... and this is by no means your little private forum where you can do whatever you wish. Grow up for heavens sake!
For me this thing whole thing grew to a bigger issue the moment you acted moderator for the guild. And if you think that you have any right to do that, anymore than me or anyone else, then this is not the guild for me. I can recall some people complaining when Aen did the same in tSS, and now you have done it here.
I don't accept that, I don't take that shit from anyone, ok?


**Once again for somone that professes to be in touch with peoples feelings as a counselor you seem to miss the point that maybe she was upset, but since everytime you or anyone else has an issue they advise in GC OOOh go to VG crafters for example even though we have some of the information in our own site, very fwe people (you can see from ISP logs) did actually ever look at it and they were always directing people away from a site moony put a lot of effort into completely selflessly... now put 2+2 together think of how moony feels and I hope your able to get 4. **

Now you really starting to piss me off Rashy, making your extreamly low comments about Cyns lack of being in touch with peoples feelings, is yet another example of how fucking ignorant you can be to peoples feelings.
Don't come here stating that you care for anyone when you can't behave like a grown up.


** well I think you hit the nail on the head HER ART, so I guess thats her choice, but once again your missing a point about how moony is feeling about things right now**
Well, sure it's moonies art and she choose to show it or not, but as the art-department was there maybe someone else wanted to use it as well?
or maybe you missed that fact?


Frankly I think your I am leaving BS because your kept out of a loop when in fact you have not been I find deplorable and insensitive to moony and cass (as nooones really had a chance to talk with you) (I had not seen you and neither had shad, you made no attempt to pm to check what was going on you plowed on regardless of how anyone may feel) .**

And you obviously keep pretending that other people here in guild don't have feelings as well? or is it just moonie or cass that are allowed to have that? Of course Cyn got upset by this whole mess as well as we all are. So quit your own BS and think again.