Break.

Hey guys, done some long and hard thinking today and I figure its best to be honest with you all, I'm finding it really difficult to get motivated to play lately so I'm gonna take some time out for the foreseeable future.

Theres nothing to craft worthwhile that sells anymore, adventuring past 50 is boring me to tears almost and i have no motivation to do it, I already did every alt class there is and just cant be bothered with the same old grind to level another, heck I even tried Diplo this week and got frustrated to the point of ranting in guild chat lol.

It seems that aside from the newer guys who are still finding everything new and interesting, no one else really feels too motivated to log on either. I do fully understand why.

I think I have only persisted as long as I have because of a desire to not let anyone down or spoil the guild for anyone else. It's not because of you guys that I'm packing up, on the contrary, its you guys that have kept me playing for this long, it's that the game is just doing nothing for me, and pretty much hasn't since the level increase to 55. (Except for Dave, he's awsome).

Not going to another mmo either, if and when I play again it will be because VG got better, I really don't want to get wrapped up in anything else. 10 years mmoing between UO and VG is more than enough for me. Maybe after just a short break i'll miss it and want to come back, I really don't know, but at the moment I'm playing because I feel obliged to, and on reflection, that seems silly, and I'm sure none of you would want that.

Will still be my old self here on our forum of course for as long as you guys want to keep the Runners alive in VG and I'm always here or on vent (once its fixed) if anyone ever needs advice, help or even just a chat. I'm not really going anywhere, just wont be ingame awhile at least. Moonie is still free to play of course, that's up to her, she knows I'm not one to stop her playing just because I have.

Hope you understand guys, and no you can't have my stuff.

I completely understand your reason mate, I know the diplo situation was a final straw when you realised the pointlesness of it.

One thing I would say to you though is that you enjoy the raids, and occaisional groups, Keep an eye on things and just play on organised stuffed you want to do.
There is the KDQ and APw that i know you enjoy for starters let alone the pota.
I know a HUGE issue for you (and something I just dont get) is that nothing happens without you and moony... This was demonstrated to me again having returned, whilst you were ill frankly numbers online were small, when you announced your return low and behold saturday there was 16 online. (yes i know its summer etc but its a fact thats constantly confused me over the last year or so). I know its put stres and pressure on you at times so maybe you need to be a lilttle bit more selfish in your approach to how you play. Do more for you and less for others.

That does not mean you have to be a selfish git, just prioritise differently.

I personally am hoping that the winter will bring on greater numbers ingame and allow us to crack on with stuff like pota, rather than just revisiting the same parts of access...
KDQ too, personally I am not a xp whore once 50 and dont care about the amount I die, I just want to play casually with a good friendly group of people, that hopefully i can call friends.

I think changing the way you play rather than running away from it is the solution for you, after all you have tried the breaks before (as have I) and in the end we wash and repeat.
The last time I realised I had to change for me to enjoy the game and I have started that process... maybe you could.

Besides I need someone I can rip the shit out of in GC, whoelse can do that so well as you

Hope you rethink but if not completely understand. Really sad you feel like you do, its not fun when you have invested as much time into a project in the way you and moony so selflessly have...


Fishing anyone?




edited for spelling not for content

hey shad,
sad to see u feel this way, but i do understand having played a lot of these games since my initial start with uo back in '95.
like u and steve and im sure many others i have also occocationally taken time off, cause of boredom and what not.
i wish i had been here the past couple of days, to help u over the diplocrap, with my 4-step-easy-way-to-learn-diplo-plan.
having said that, im hoping, its jsut a temporary thing, and that u will refind ur love for the game, and find that u miss the cammeradery in the guild and our great raids etc.........:Moon: .

and , we dont want ur stuff, we want U back!!!

its not just the diplo and stuff tbh guys, look at the post 50 content, i just don't enjoy grinding, plus upon finding that the pota gear costs in excess of 11 to 17 plat depending if you grind the consumables or buy them, and your gonna need that to progress further, what chance does that give most of us?

Heck, i have 3 toons with about 40 gold each and the rest have pocket change. I currently have a gold crafting sigil on both snake and shad and cant afford the recipe paper hardly, cant afford the apw harvest tools, cant afford the kdq thingy to repeat the quests etc, so pota is gonna be completely insignificant to me.

I play like most of you guys do, to help each other, not to spend time getting uber rich.....fat chance now, house trading is coming in so less building for snake and no one wants crafted armor or weps now that slotted stuff is in, which i cant be bothered to grind for.

They have just priced me outa the game tbh, and as much as I love you guys, I'm fed up playing and seeing nothing for us even if we do get to 55, due to us all being relatively skint. For example, they put a horseshoe recipe in kdq and charge 15 plat for the rivets to make it. The sudden prices of new content stuff is really been the last nail in the coffin. I don't know who they are aiming this stuff at, but it's definatelyt not me. Why even start pota if i'm never going to afford the armor?

I've just lost the will currently to grind for something that I'm not all that bothered about. I just log on and stand around wondering what to do half the time and I'm so fed up levelling alts, esp now the goalpost has been moved beyond a horrendous grind to finish a toon off. Raiding just results in losing more xp than I can be bothered to get back before the next raid, so I lose even more.

Just totally demoralized and disillusioned by the entire new endgame its just one frustration after another as I realize it's beyond me and possibly always will be, everything seemingly geared towards uber raiders and the uber rich, which most of us will never be as a group and I just wouldn't want to play the game with anyone other than you guys.

SOE just don't deserve my sub for what they are doing to us, and the only way I can legitimately show that is by stopping it.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can understand the need to leave. I'm still having fun with the 1-50 stuff, but I don't think I'd bother beyond that either.

Sorry to here this. I did the same thing a few weeks ago. I feel a little bad for the way the game is and that the economy really needs to be fixed, something drastic is fine. If I combine all my money i might get 10g so i can hardly get any new crap anyway. Shad you seem to help alot of people here and never ask for help yourself. I been to RI a dozen times and seen the same crap over, and I hate it there, and you never seem to find your mask/helm, not really sure what it is. When you return be a little selfish and do stuff you like and I will help, you also don't have to start from the beginning for me. If you get whatever you need it would probably help others in the long haul anyway. My subscription is coming due and was debating to renew it too. Maybe we can bribe vg with them, probably an empty treat. Rashy could be our voice seems his mouth is made for this kind of negotiation. I could put my subscription in his hands and maybe we can start something like a petition with vg.

I'm glad to have come back to VG and meet with people like you. I understand well enough your complain about grinding and unaccessible "high-level" contains as it seems to be a general problem with MMOs.
One of the most important thing with gaming is enjoying it and that's what I like with the MNR. When it's a shore to play, it's time for a break. I did it myself last year.
I only hope the game will get fixed enough soon for you to get an incentive to come back as I enjoyed playing with you and learned much at your side.

I really sad to hear the game isn't fun for you Shad. Hopefully you will find other things to entertain you and enjoy.

I can understand the changes are painful to many here. Perhaps the difference for the newer folks is simply that we don't remember anything else - guess I don't know fully comprehend what is lost

Yea I think even just if its a few months break it may be enough to feel fresh about the game again.

I wouldn't want to put the newer guys off at all tbh, because at your levels there is still loads of fun to be had, it's not really until you hit 50 that it has become a repetitive grind for me. Like I said though, it's really the fact that you need to be mega rich (by our standards) to even get a lot of the stuff you could really do with to enjoy the game to the full. Wasn't POTA supposed to be for non raid geared 6 man groups? What's the point if the rewards require you to spend plats that are beyond the means of normal people who play for fun?

I guess the dev team is too small to cater to hardcore players and guys like us, and silius has decided where he prefers to put all his eggs. I think we take for granted that our Devs are experts in the field of MMO design, but I really don't think ours are, they seem to have got the whole level increase thing wrong in every aspect.

It's kind of frustrating that all new content is being geared to level 55 and you have to be pretty focussed and do little else to get there, then once you do, due to costs, the only real content left that you can do, is the old level 50 stuff which you are then overlevelled for. I think we found that out when we completely whooped pharohs butt a few weeks ago.

I just can't see anything on the horizon for me personally to play for at the moment now that theres nothing really viable left for me to craft and sell due to house trading coming in and everyone at high level wanting slotted items. Even Fred is broke now that the majority of guys left are the raiders who want the best slotted gear. The market is completely gone fubarred since the level increase. At least when I needed a couple of plat before, I could craft and make it within a reasonable timescale, now I just can't.

The Midnight Runners in VG are still a very close knit community though I feel, and the griff quest still needs doing as well as some tet temples and theres a long way to go yet in APW, so its not all doom and gloom, it just needs some co-ordination really. I'm just not sure how many guys are motivated enough to press on with it, although there's a good mix of classes and all it needs is a 6 man group with some time to spare, maybe ked and nan could get things moving? Really depends who's logging on I guess.

Like I said, I'll still be around on here and on vent once I get my sound fixed, I just think I should be concentrating on some rl stuff a bit more really now that I am sure about stopping my sub for the time being. Hopefully the devs will see the problem facing the less hardcore players, although you'd have thought they'd have seen it coming before they implemented such extreme requirements for the new endgame, so I won't hold my breath.

To me, the problem seems to be that we have a small dev team consisting of good code fixers, but no one creative to actually design any content other than kill a million of the same mob and no one forward thinking enough to realise the consequences to non raiders or crafters caused by the new stuff.

Funny really, pre POTA no one went to KDQ because it was so boring, now everyones there because its the best of the post 50 stuff that there is. It's still pretty boring though, especially when you can't even afford the tool to redo the quests or the components to actually make the reward recipes.

Hey Shad, your decision is not hard to understand really, yet it's sad to see you stop playing, as I (and I think I speak for everyone in guild) enjoys playing with you.
I still hope you find some reason to get back online.
I have the same problem from time to time.
It's not becouse of the Guildies or anything, you are all great, it's the game itself.
There really isn't much new to discover, and that make it more or less a grind.
I do appreciate the raids though, mostly for the good company.
Apart from raids I enjoy lower level stuff alot more than the high end stuff, the grinding is just horrendous, I really can't be bothered with it.
When I do the high end stuff I don't do it for my own part, but more to help the rest of you.
Most of the time it's like Shad says - I can't even afford the high end stuff.

Regarding what Steve said about the dwindling numbers online when you and Moonie isn't around - It's just time to face the truth.
This guild is higly based on people that enjoy playing with the two of you, so wheter you like it or not, this VG guild will prolly not be the same after you are gone, mainly becouse the people here, joined the guild based on the two of you, without Shad and Moonie, it simply just won't be the same again. I think most in guild will agree with that.
I'm not saying this so you won't stop playing, I just state the fact.

Maybe it's time to find a new game?
I'm not sure you think it's worthwhile investing all your time into yet another new game, but for me, I don't see it that way, for me it's just relaxing to log in and have a good evening, after working all day. So if I go to a new game, it won't be that big deal for me.

Anyway, still not done with my Windows 7 upgrade, so I really can't be online at all yet, but I guess once that is fixed, I will be there again from time to time.
I still enjoy the world of Telon, but it seems, the more seasoned you get, the more boring it gets to some degree.
I won't quit, hell I still got my DDO and Conan account still ticking, although I don't play them much

hi, Shad,

almost quietly nodded to myself when I read your posts. your decision feels right
and understandable.
feeling sad and a bit hysterically touched about the future, cause I really enjoy
playing with you. sure it won't be the same without you, as I recognize Moonlake
and you as the beating hearts of the guild.

didn't decide for an "official break" myself, prolly because my actual state of inter-
net-connection more determines my lack of motivation to play rather than hard
thoughts about the new content. additionally to that I am still busy to get into
contact with my new life fiddling with diverse alternatives to move on.

as Nexxus raised the idea to look for another MMO. count me in, although
MMO's intriguing me seem to launch only in 2010 (KOTOR online, FFXIV). maybe
worth to try the running "Final Fantasy" to pre-check the upcoming ones.

Having read all of the above I find myself wishing to express a few ideas myself.

Being new to MNR I have not had much opportunity of "Playing" alongside you Shad. What real contact has been mostly the banter and company in chat and on vent. Which brings me to the first point. MNR is a close group of people who get on well togther and that would seem to be as the result of what You and Tanya created. To me there seemd to be a core of about half a dozen that made the established MNR, most and then effectively all of whom have been missing for whatever reasons over the last couple of weeks. However, is it seems more of a concept than a one man band.

People play MMO's to enrich their lives, either through fun and relaxation, or because it gives them something lacking in the rest of it. The difference between a MMO and a single player game, is the company; to whatever degree the individual wants from active chat online and in vent to just knowing there are others arounds. A MMO can bring a group together and it provides a common interest on which relationships develop.

So what I would suggest is about VG being fun in most cases, and the opportunity of the company it presents. When those factors are absent the desire to play predictably deteriorates; for example when VG becomes a grind fest, SOE begins to experiment with raising additional revenue by allowing ingame currency to be bought in RL, and access to company primarily through vent is denied.

A common occurance in MMO's is the neccessity to group in order to progress, which ends up with a 2 tier system of those high levels having to be on at the same time in order to continue, and the low levels becoming dependent on the higher levels for assistance or gear in an almost parasitical relationship. Through natural wastage the higher level will shrink in numbers and so the demands upon those who remain become greater, often turning fun into burden.

I have heard another observe and agree that most MMO's have a 6 month attraction, that being the time it takes for it to loose it's wonder, and for the grind to gain accendence; in VG's case due to it's sheer size I would expect that time to be longer.

Although the problem with a different game is that it may not appeal to all in the existing group, Nexxus may well have a good point with a different game providing that common ground, with all being new to it meaning that none become the sole providers of any one aspect of the game, as seems to be the case now. A different game would also have that refreshing mix of familarity and wonder with it.

Now that you have voiced your desire for a change Shad, you may find that the sound card issue or whatever it is may resolve itself, and something whether VG or not, or online or in RL comes along to cheer you up.

:GratsGrats: Regardless Mate

Nexxus wrote:

This guild is higly based on people that enjoy playing with the two of you, so wheter you like it or not, this VG guild will prolly not be the same after you are gone, mainly becouse the people here, joined the guild based on the two of you....

Ego boosting or what!

I'd just say that the rest of the guildies are brilliant too (don't want anyone crying in a corner!!).

Well I have resubbed to Ultima Online after Rashy said he intended to try the 14 day free trial there.

Murg, aoli and kev visited last night and it seems they all feel the same regarding VG and want to play UO too, (wisey and murg already know it well). I guess it says a lot for the game that despite its retro look, ex players still are happy to return to it.

I really don't want to pull our VG guild apart, which Is why I kept where I was going quiet, but of course if anyone would like to join in, they are very welcome. I have enough cash from my old days there to house everyone and fund a new start. Cant promise finding space for a castle for everyone, but certainly can hunt out some decent places to live, which is a big part of the enjoyment there. I found A Large tower spot already which would make a perfect Guildhouse. But it really depends if guys can accept the more retro look of the game. It's very complex though (ask rashy), but me, murg, kev and moonie can certainly help to work stuff out. And playing together is np as there are no level requirements and it isn't quest based.

Meanwhile, murg has bought us the Midnight Runners .co.uk name for life and a shedload of server space, so as a guild on the whole, the future looks ok. We can split the main info to any games we play, and just add a uo specific section to the forum. Nothing as official as a Player association, we saw how that goes in TSS, I think so long as we keep using our forum informally rather than dividing it off, and keep the midnight runners guild in any game we play, it will help maintain some feeling of cameraderie and less division for any new recruits Vanguard Side.

It's all up to you guys really, both those who move and those who stay, ie: are those staying, up to the challenge of keeping TMR alive in VG, and are those moving interested in joining those of us in UO? With Vent and the forum, hopefully, guild wise, we are all still mmo friends which is the crux here I think.

I must admit my heart still wants to see vanguard through, logging in tonight though there were only 8 online so really not sure whats what atm.

Gonna have a think i suspect and see what happens.
As for uo I am trying it yes, but not sure right now it is something i would pay a monthly sub for....

Downloading it now ... only the 14 day free trial, will see how i like it

but kinda short on cash atm as i just quit me job so will be a while before i actually subscribe

Also, Vg i may be without vg too soon :(

now im getting totally confused, Help Please, Im on skype ...

Is UO a european thing or can I see what its like? Also me and Ghil play Dungeons and Dragons Online took me awhile to find the european edition server details but it seems like a pretty good game also Ghil did start a MNR guild there. I will look at UO but need to know the details of server stuff.

You can check out UO on youtube if you want, there are always example of gameplay there.

Freddric wrote:

Is UO a european thing or can I see what its like? Also me and Ghil play Dungeons and Dragons Online took me awhile to find the european edition server details but it seems like a pretty good game also Ghil did start a MNR guild there. I will look at UO but need to know the details of server stuff.

ddo for me was dire lol... played it ages ago... have a copy is anyone needs, will just have to work out the password on the account.

Downloaded the new Hi Res version today which is Free to play so I can check it out; I'll activate it over the weekend, apparently this new version came out 4 days ago.

Also checked UO on Youtube, reminded me of the early versions of diablo, version 3 of which is apparently due out in a couple of months. Anyway, have to admit that UO did not appeal, too much the manic arcade style I fear.

Am hoping regardless of all this that vabguard does not die, I still fee I have incested too much into it and want to complete apw.... guess time will tell that one.

I'm with you Kinky. Much as I wish everyone happiness in whatever they choose, I personally really want the opportunity to experience a few big raid groups. Might not be for me, but I won't know until I try. It will give me a really good indication of where I'm going game wise

Been looking into this DDO Unlimited some more turns out it is not on general release until the 9th, and the free to play is severely limited. Such is life.

As Fredd said I also played alot DDO before VG, and really enjoyed it. It's a bit more limited, it's not a free world, you can't craft and you can't get a house or a guildhouse.
But when it comes to quest it's really good compared to VG, it's instanciated, meaning just the people you group with will be in that cave or whatever. I haven't seen a buggy quest at all I think
It's simply super if you wanna do some good quests including Raids.
Level cap was just raised to level 20, and I assure, you it will take longer than to get to 55 in VG. On the good side, there isn't very much nerfing goin on, since DDO is heavily based on the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 ruleset, wich you can buy as a book. So they can't tweak the stuff much since they are bound by a deal to stick to thise rules.

Anyways, I guess it's not for everyone, but if you like just logging in, decide what dungeon to hit and compleate it that evening it's a good game.

UO I played when it was 2d game, and I hated the player killers and stuff like that, it seemed it was all orientated to who can kill who, and who can get richest and get the fanciest titles ... not sure thats for me.