Guild Recruiting

http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/guildsProfiles.vm?guildId=433791697588&order=3&dir=a&mode=Class#Bard

Ok guys, we can now field 18 to 20 Raiders and have a nice selection of classes to choose from with at least 1 lev 50 in every class.

I think we need to become clearer on our recruiting policy. With a few more guys now creeping up towards level 48, it's not going to be too long before we can fill the 24 raid slots. Now the last thing we want is disappointed guys who turn up a bit late on raid night looking forward to playing, only to find there's no room for them imo, so..............

Is it time to stop recruiting and look after the guys we already have and continue to bond as a team?

I was chatting with a friend in another guild last night (nope I haven't upset everyone else yet ), actually from one of the guilds I'd consider a lot more prominent than we are. They asked what we were up to and I explained about our successful raid weekend, saying we were excited as although it's only the entrance wing, we have done it so far by only fielding Guild members and without outside help. It was then suggested to me that we were lucky as we were one of the bigger, more successful and well established guilds on Halgar, and that they had lost so many guys that they couldn't raid alone any longer. I must admit to feeling a pang of pride, as well as surprise, that others may percieve us in this way.

This blew me away a little, as I have always, and pretty much still do think of us as a small, low profile, casual, bunch of friends, type guild. In my mind, this has always been the key to our success, minimal recruiting, giving new guys time to become established guildies. Our losses over time have been very minimal too compared with many other guilds, with us growing as others have dwindled, so we have been doing something right it seems

So, we now have 50 mains in the guild with I think around 80% of those active and probably 10% that come and go, and 10% inactive.

Feel free to express your opinions/discuss and cast your vote etc. Your Vote can be changed if you change your mind at anytime. I'll give it a while and let others have their say before I chip in

Everyones opinion matters, no matter how long you have been with us.

I do agree in all points of your analysis ... so, :alien: YES :alien: , we are a good guild ...
we survived critical phases of individual conflicts amongst members, we survived
the burnout due to having gathered a good bunch of long-term players and we
survived the bleeding due to leavers to other MMO's.

Also I am aware of the danger to become a guild too big.

Had two lessons since I played Vanguard though and they tought me:

1) NEVER stop recruiting, this always is the wrong signal
2) NEVER orientate recruiting on raid-issues

my vote goes to "playing with recruiting-frequency", which actually means a
nice and welcome vacation for the recruiters, but includes to stay open for old
(returner) and new friends (as in friends of existing members) that wanna
join.

Mho wrote:

1) NEVER stop recruiting, this always is the wrong signal
2) NEVER orientate recruiting on raid-issues

First guild and MMO for me so little knowledge. However I do agree with Mho on the above.

Plus... if there are more folk than raid group room perhaps the lower lvls could field a full group to do whatever they wish to do. Currently that isn't always possible. I personally have no problem with playing alts, can't recall what the limit is but if I got bored of any and they all hit the high lvls, I'm sure I could nuke a couple

i think we should still recruit friends of people in rl would like to close recruiting to new members we meet ingame tho ... rl friends are good because if they are a friend of someone in the guild then they are a friend to us ... maybe make recruiting frenquency less

I chose recruitment for friends only,meaning either friends we already have or friends we make ( having read some later posts would like to point out I mean both IG and RL friends of course just in case that was not clear). I think the full raid grp could be a sticky situation,I know we can say well if we have too many the extras can always grp up and do something but for the ppl who don't turn up til later and find theres no space for them might not be happy about that and I really would not want anyone feeling left out and I myself would drop out to let somebody else take my place instead and I have a suspicion there are others that would do the same aswell and this also could cause problems,so would just rather avoid that situation if possible. Having said that wouldn't wanna stop friends from being guilded together.

I guess the issue of arriving late is likely to be something that occurs to me very frequently (at least until March 2010, perhaps beyond). Very often totally out of my control as it's work induced. Something I abhor, but I have to accept. So yeah, I get frustrated but it's me being frustrated at the things that delay me, not at the guild. I know you have to start at the time stated.

My vote is Stop recruiting.
I have already problems getting to know some of the newer ones, and we've had quite a few latley compared to the last 12 month...
If it's gonna work, we need to get to know everyone, else it will just turn into a new TSS business, and I wouldn't want that.
And I also think we should have a limit of 24 main so noone gets left out on a raid.
If someone leaves, I guess we can open up and recruit again.

There IS a key to our success.... We all know each other pretty well, and I think it's cruicial we can maintain that scenario.

I agree with ghil we should stop recruiting and maybe get to know the newcomers a little first and let them get to know us too. I like that our raid team is going great and wouldn't like to see members left out of the excitement.

I'm fairly new. I'm happy here. There are quite a few of you I've not grouped with yet, and I get the impression that won't happen till I hit L50. I'd like to get to raid someday, but I'm not in any particular rush. 10 levels to go on Kelech, and serious case of alt-itis.

I can understand the current feeling of being swamped by new people, but I think limiting the (Raid) membership to -exactly- 24 will lead to problems if/when someone can't make it, or isn't in the mood but feels pressure to play anyway.

I think a 'friends-only' policy is the best way to go for a while, so people who have the right fit can still get an invite.

Stormkitten wrote:

I think a 'friends-only' policy is the best way to go for a while, so people who have the right fit can still get an invite.

Agreed but I'd not want to see a good friend made IG excluded just because we've not met up IRL. I'd have been somewhat disappointed if Raph for instance, had been declined membership on the basis I'd not stood in the same room as him. Equally not advocating opening the doors and taking in everyone we slightly like Merely a balance.

I'm not sure of the exact history here but it's sounding like there are two issues. One is existing raiders worried about loosing slots to newcomers because in effect there will be more of folk than places. The second, not knowing the newcomers.

Discussing the above, from my perspective, I've no idea if I'll even enjoy raiding. Added to that unknown is whether I have the ability/skill to be a good tank at that lvl. Plus that you already have a good list of tanks. Next obstacle is that glorious RL emergency rota I have to be on for 50+% of my time (should only be for 20%). Lots of unknowns, any one of which could mean I don't join the big guys trips. I'm sure every newcomer will have a list of likely unanswered questions regarding the high lvl raids (lvl 50 newcomers excepted).

The second issue is more tricky. We can chatter on vent, but that's not ideal if a raid is going on. I personally try to keep quieter then 'cos at the end of the day you all need to hear what you're doing, not listen to me prattle about some inane (to me, big issue) problem or my current tipple for the night (coffee, coffee, tea, juice, tea, juice with the now rare glass of wine/cider). Personally found grouping up I've learnt far more about those present than when we've all sat in a channel doing our own thing. I think the communication and knowing each other thing will gradually develop. There just isn't any instant solution.

Erm.. I've waffled. relief from the chaos of work. Shutting up now

Beyond the first comment here are some lessons I have learned about, online guilds, clans, or whatever they get called.

If there is a one out, one in policy, what is going to happen when one leaves, and there are at least 2 people waiting to join each with their own friends or sponsors within the guild? Forewarned is forearmed.

People join a guild because it appeals to them, when it starts to be tweeked towards what one person wants, there is inevitably another who becomes dissatisfied and then the hassles begin.

Sooner or later MMO guilds have to choose between " .... This happy band of brothers." (Shakespeare's Henry V) or " ..... because we are the best of the best, of the best" (Men in Black I).

The larger the group, the more diverse tastes; there will always be those who play to prove something, those who play to escape and, those who are varying mixture of both.

There is a self regulating quality about online groups, where an individual remains whilst the group provides what is desired and leaves it is felt that desire will be better sated elsewhere.

Personally I joined because of what MDR claimed to be, and remain because I find it to be true.

Having read this somewaht heavy post I feel the need to redress the balance so ..... :distractman:

I had a very long post typed out about this, with thoughts about how different recruitment policies can affect the shape, direction and general atmosphere of a guild, but I think I'll boil it down to this:

I'm here because I suggested MNR to Fe'ai when she was looking for a guild. I myself had been vaguely on and off researching guilds, due to the unfortunate change in my personal circumstances that you all know about, and MNR was on my own short list, too.

A small-ish friendly family-atmosphere type guild that had a primary emphasis on fun, and goofing around, but also getting things done.

A guild that knew how to laugh and not take themselves (or this game) too seriously.

A guild that's going to accept people based on personality and fit, rather than level or class requirements.

I don't want to see MNR change to open recruitment. I don't want to be flooded with people that I don't know - I still want the opportunity to get to know all of you. But I don't want to see the guild stagnante. If guild recruitment had been 'friends only', I wouldn't be here. Neither would SK or Fe'ai.

But I don't want to see MNR change to restrict recruitment further. Maybe it's different for you guys, but I only group with my friends and guildies anyway. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of friends I have outside MNR and they're all already in guilds anyway. Like I said, maybe it's different for everyone else, but for me a "friends only" policy pretty much says "We're only going to recruit people we know and like, and pretty much most everyone we know and like is already in this guild"

So yeah. Continue as we are - But with that same emphasis on compatibility and personality and fit. There -is- a middle ground between open recruitment and very restrictive recruitment, albeit a difficult line to walk.

I leave you with words from an old boss I used to work for. He used to recruit people with an emphasis on personality and fit, and not strictly on who had the very best skill set.

"You can teach someone new skills. You can't change who they are as a person"

My vote is very strongly for continuing as we are. Publically opening recruitment is a bad move. There's a lot of people out there who I have absolutely zero desire to play with, and I'm sure that sentiment is shared by everyone here. Restricting recruitment even more than it currently stands at is, I think, unnecessary. It's not as if we have people beating down our door anyway, is it? (or maybe we do and I don't know about it)

But the upshot of it all, really, is that I don't want to see MNR change.

I like the guild I joined.




p.s. And yes, this post is about a third of the length of my original...

Looking at how this poll is going, may I ask what is to be the definition of "A friend" in respect of recruitment?

Cheers